Are STOS extensions F030/TT compatible?

STOS programming section.

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mrbombermillzy
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Are STOS extensions F030/TT compatible?

Post by mrbombermillzy »

As the title, but mainly TOME and Missing link (Im guessing @exxos will know).

Reason being is that I have seen this great STOS utility app: https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=41441

so wouldnt mind having a play at some point! :)
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exxos
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Re: Are STOS extensions F030/TT compatible?

Post by exxos »

I compiled a falcon STOS setup on my site. But no idea for the TT. As to what exactly works and what doesn't, you would just have to try it.
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/store2/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1585 Have you done the Mandatory Fixes ?
Just because a lot of people agree on something, doesn't make it a fact. ~exxos ~
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mrbombermillzy
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Re: Are STOS extensions F030/TT compatible?

Post by mrbombermillzy »

Fair enough.

Unless someone can chip in with a definitive answer in the meantime, I will at some point in the future test both out with some 'choice' extensions and report back here with the answer.

Are there any other 'must have' STOS extensions, or were the missing link and TOME the best ones?
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exxos
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Re: Are STOS extensions F030/TT compatible?

Post by exxos »

It's not easy to answer as the falcon had its own extensions. You can play protracker tunes on the DSP etc. But there was never any sprite or map extensions for the falcon. I assume TML works in ST resolutions. It really depends what you want to do. Start with the falcon STOS setup and just use that as much as possible. Then fallback on ST extensions when you need to, but I also doubt anyone has ever documented what exactly works on the falcon and what doesn't.
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/store2/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1585 Have you done the Mandatory Fixes ?
Just because a lot of people agree on something, doesn't make it a fact. ~exxos ~
People should find solutions to problems, not find problems with solutions.
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mrbombermillzy
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Re: Are STOS extensions F030/TT compatible?

Post by mrbombermillzy »

I guess the best thing to do would just test the ST specific extensions, TOME and Missing Link on both the 030 machines. (IIRC the TT has a fairly good compatibility too).

Don't want to get too involved, as it was just to play around with the CSV2STOS utility, but at least I can test that much.
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Re: Are STOS extensions F030/TT compatible?

Post by exxos »

Yeah its a shame the falcon extensions wasn't developed further. A port of TML to the falcon to make use of better resolutions and colours would have been great back then. But I guess intergrating and updating STOS itself would be a better option these days.
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/store2/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1585 Have you done the Mandatory Fixes ?
Just because a lot of people agree on something, doesn't make it a fact. ~exxos ~
People should find solutions to problems, not find problems with solutions.
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mrbombermillzy
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Re: Are STOS extensions F030/TT compatible?

Post by mrbombermillzy »

exxos wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:33 pm Yeah its a shame the falcon extensions wasn't developed further. A port of TML to the falcon to make use of better resolutions and colours would have been great back then. But I guess intergrating and updating STOS itself would be a better option these days.
Funny you should say that.

Not quite STOS, but on my initial 'prospecting' on PC>68k game conversion a few months back, I was looking at the possibility of 'wrapping' BlitzBasic commands to 680x0 assembly language MACROs to (eventually) speed up development. After hitting a wall, I was shown a very clever way of circumventing the assembler pass order chicken<>egg problem that plagues the use of MACROs, which can make them much more powerful (and actually making it possible to use them for wrapping the high level language commands with their respective arguments).

I'm still in two minds as to whether to go this way (will take more initial time/effort and will be quite clunky 68k asm facing, but after a while, will save time), but that's a story for another day.

(I did mention to @Steve a while back that maybe I should write a game conversion blog here.)

Anyway, TL;DR: A BASIC type language is possible to do this way... Depends if you have the time to write (what is basically) a high level language compiler in assembly. :lol:
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Re: Are STOS extensions F030/TT compatible?

Post by exxos »

I think if there was enough interest in STOS it would be worthwhile to update it. But like you say, it would be a huge job where it might be easier to just start again.. But then you have to write a compiler then all the support stuff..OTOH, spend time just coding asm in the first place and stuff everyone else :lol:

I need to learn asm, but just no time :( I want to add changes into GB6, but that's all asm code again. There is hardly any coders out there anymore, even less who are willing to help :( it's mostly why I just use hisoft basic, as it gets the job done, but it has some odd bugs which take a lot of time up. STOS had a lot larger user base and examples, but it's not really any good for doing GEM apps in.

All the later STOS stuff has lost me totally. I've no idea what all that stuff is, like AOZ studio or whatever it was. Something about converting STOS programs into JavaScript to run in a browser or something :shrug: I'm oldskool I like the original stuff, it's in the spirit of retro computing IMO, anyway .. But I confess I use notepad for HISOFT code, I like copy paste with the mouse etc :lol:
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/store2/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1585 Have you done the Mandatory Fixes ?
Just because a lot of people agree on something, doesn't make it a fact. ~exxos ~
People should find solutions to problems, not find problems with solutions.
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mrbombermillzy
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Re: Are STOS extensions F030/TT compatible?

Post by mrbombermillzy »

exxos wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:20 pm I want to add changes into GB6, but that's all asm code again. There is hardly any coders out there anymore, even less who are willing to help :(
Do you have the source code for it? (Would be a hell of a lot easier if you do! Who wrote it? Was it Doug?)

And (more importantly) is it 68k code, rather than the GEM/AES/VDI you need changing?

Well, look. If the above answers are 'YES' then I'm happy to help out, but SO snowed under with general life and other coding ATM, so it might take a long while.

But if you're not in any hurry and just sat on it and it's doing nothing, then send it over and maybe it will be a nice surprise if I can get it done in 6 months time or something. :lol:
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Re: Are STOS extensions F030/TT compatible?

Post by exxos »

mrbombermillzy wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:12 pm Do you have the source code for it? (Would be a hell of a lot easier if you do! Who wrote it? Was it Doug?)

And (more importantly) is it 68k code, rather than the GEM/AES/VDI you need changing?
I have the source code yes. I made some changes already in fact. Its just a 68k binary which GB6 calls basically. Changes are almost nothing really..but I have no idea how to do stuff much in asm, I can add routines and compile, but that's about it. The code isn't that long even, just a few lines.. I'll ping over the info later see what you think of it all.
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/store2/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1585 Have you done the Mandatory Fixes ?
Just because a lot of people agree on something, doesn't make it a fact. ~exxos ~
People should find solutions to problems, not find problems with solutions.
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